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Week of October 19, 2003
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Something is troubling my mind for quite some time now. It has to do with the Lamb's marriage. A sister and I went into a debate about the exact timing of the marriage. She is convinced that the wedding takes place after the battle of Armageddon and I'm convinced that it is before. She explained that she's been taught that the Lamb's marriage takes place after Armageddon based on the Scriptural "proof" found in Revelations 21:2, where it says: "prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." But I'm pointing to chapter 19:7 where it says that: "Let us rejoice and be overjoyed, and let us give him the glory, because the marriage of the Lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself." And here lies the problem: The context of chapter 19 seems to indicate that the marriage takes place before the battle of Armageddon, but the context of chapter 21 seems to indicate the opposite. So, does the marriage of the Lamb take place before or after Armageddon? And how will we know that the marriage has taken place, because it's invisible for us humans here on earth? Maybe you could shed some light on this matter. |
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The Watchtower has stated on several occasions that some members of the anointed bride class will still be on earth after Armageddon. However, that view is not what the Bible teaches. The 19th chapter of Revelation situates the marriage of the Lamb as occurring immediately after Babylon the Great is destroyed, but before the war of the great day of God Almighty—otherwise known as Armageddon. Revelation 21:2 merely refers to the city-like kingdom coming down out of heaven after the old system is destroyed.
To establish that the marriage takes place before Armageddon and that no true anointed son will survive in the flesh to live on for even a brief period in the new earth, we merely have to reason upon the import of the first prophecy recorded in the Scriptures. That, of course, is Genesis 3:15, which refers to the seed of God's woman crushing the head of the serpent. The seed of the woman is not just Jesus but is the body or bride of Christ as well. That's why at Romans 16:20, Paul said that all of the sons of God would participate in crushing Satan under their feet. (Of course, Satan himself is not crushed out of existence until after the 1,000-year reign, but Armageddon will crush Satan's kingdom and cause him to relinquish his choke-hold upon mankind.)
Also, the 14th chapter of Zechariah depicts the events of the actual war of Armageddon, and the last part of verse 15 says: "And Jehovah my God will certainly come, all the holy ones being with him." According to Daniel the holy ones are the followers of Christ who are given the kingdom when the Son of man arrives. So, if all of God's holy ones are with him when he comes, then, that means that the marriage of the Lamb takes place prior to their coming with God during the final judgment.
Finally, Jesus himself said that as a prelude to the end, "he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity." That this final gathering takes place heralded by "a great trumpet sound" would seem to indicate that the other sheep of the great crowd would also recognize what was taking place somehow. Just how that all will come about, though, is inscrutable at the moment.
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It is believed that the original transcripts of the Holy Bible are not in existence, so what proof is there that what we have today is not forged copies? Islam teaches that The Holy Bible is incorporated in The Holy Qur'an and that the various Bible versions in existence today are ALL forged copies.
The Book of Barnabus is omitted from all the versions, which testifies to the existence and prophecy of the prophet Muhammad, Yet it is spoken of in the Qur'an.
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It is true that the original transcripts no longer exist. But there are many, many copies in existence. They exist in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic and were produced over a span of several centuries. There are minor textual variations, but rather than that being an indication of forgery, it actually debunks the notion that the Bible is based upon forged documents. That's because the mistakes and textual variations that have crept in over the years can be edited out by textual comparison. If the modern Bible were a fake, then that would mean that the master texts of the forgery would have had to have been introduced long before any copies were made; so that all present copies would be copies of the forgeries instead of the original. That, of course, is simply preposterous. For a fact, such an ambitious undertaking would have been a bigger project than the writing and preservation of the originals.
Realistically, it would have not been possible for such a massive fraud to have to taken place for the simple reason that the Jewish kings, priests, and scribes, who were originally entrusted with the sacred scrolls, would not have allowed it. The Bible was their heritage and even though they may not have lived by its words, they at least zealously safeguarded the Scriptures from corruption.
Instead of the Bible being a fraud, the fact of the matter is that the book of Barnabas is a proven fake.
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Why do so many non-Christian organizations and non-Christian religions base their origin of existence upon an apostolic church or some sort of falling away of the original truth and teachings, when the bible firmly denies this, and why is the term falling away misinterpreted in the Bible so much, when the original language does not mean falling away from the truth or teachings at all? |
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I am not sure what you are asking exactly. Why would a "non-Christian" religion base their origin on the apostles?
But, the Scriptures definitely did foretell that there would be a falling away from the teachings of Christ after the death of the apostles. For example: 1 Timothy 4:1 reads: "However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron."
Also, at Acts 20:29-30, Paul said: "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves."
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Watchman, as an ex-JW I read your Web Pages with great interest, yet I am puzzled by the paradox of your keen support for Jehovah's Witnesses coupled with apparent disagreement with The Watchtower Society. It would help me to understand your writings better if you could list the specific changes you would make to the Society and its teachings which in your view would bring all things more in line with Scripture. |
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I do not propose any sort of change to the Watchtower. True, someone asked a few weeks back what I personally would like to see changed, but my somewhat tongue-in-cheek response was not intended to be Luther's declaration of reformation or anything like that. I do not claim to have the wisdom or knowledge necessary to effect any sort of meaningful reform or purge strongly-entrenched ideas and attitudes.
My only insights lie in seeing the prophecies in a somewhat different light; and my intention is to call attention to the very words of God that, not only have foretold our present situation in amazing detail, but which also outline God's solution. The remedy being: the judgment of Jehovah, when the kingdom comes.
Take, for example, the very exhortation of Jehovah in the opening words of the prophecy of Isaiah, where he says: "Come, now, you people, and let us set matters straight between us," says Jehovah. "Though the sins of you people should prove to be as scarlet, they will be made white just like snow; though they should be red like crimson cloth, they will become even like wool."
The prophecy of Isaiah goes on to indict and convict those who are called Jehovah's Witnesses. But, in the conclusion of the matter, Jehovah ultimately succeeds in setting matters straight between himself and his people. Granted, the refining process calls for a dose of some very nasty medicine, which will be administered during an unprecedented time of trouble, but some illnesses only respond to strong measures. Jehovah knows exactly what is needed to cure our spiritual maladies. I encourage all to take heart and look forward in faith to the day, seemingly not too distant, when God makes his own voice be heard above the din of mere human chatter. (See Isaiah 42:14.)
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I've done lots of research on the 607/587 question, and although it seems like 607 is certainly wrong, how did the rest of the religious community and secular history come to the 587 date? Also what are the dates of the King Nebuchadnezzar rule? I have from secular history and my KJB that it is 605-562BC so how could he have ordered the destruction of Judah in 607 when he wasn't even King then? To me this is such a big question, because if 607 is wrong then certainly 1914 is wrong. This has been a real stumbling block for me and my Bible study with the JW's |
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As mentioned a couple weeks back in the mailbag, chronology is based upon Babylonian cuneiform writings. Also, astronomy is used to try and establish when certain recorded eclipses occurred and thereby establishing a precise date in history. It may be of interest to some that one of Jehovah's Witnesses recently published a book that delves into the issues of Babylonian chronology.
The real problem, though, is not in establishing an ancient date for the fall of Jerusalem. The fundamental difficulty, indeed the tragedy, is that the Watchtower has used such chronology to establish a date for the return of Christ. As a result, Jehovah's Witnesses are laboring under the erroneous notion that the "appointed times of the nations" began when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. Whatever date we accept for that occurrence is irrelevant though, because it is wholly unjustifiable to connect the so-called Gentile times with the seven times of Daniel.
Indeed, the stage now appears to be set for the Watchtower's 1914 dogma to become a potential stumbling block for all of Jehovah's Witnesses during the actual return of Christ. The issue is destined to come down to whether we shall trust Jehovah or whether we will follow men who have induced us to trust Babylonian chronology.
Notice, please, how this judgment is in accord with Scripture. Isaiah 28:14-16 reads: "Therefore hear the word of Jehovah, you braggarts, you rulers of this people who are in Jerusalem: Because you men have said: "We have concluded a covenant with Death; and with Sheol we have effected a vision; the overflowing flash flood, in case it should pass through, will not come to us, for we have made a lie our refuge and in falsehood we have concealed ourselves"; therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: "Here I am laying as a foundation in Zion a stone, a tried stone, the precious corner of a sure foundation. No one exercising faith will get panicky."
The Watchtower applies this denunciation to the clergy of Christendom, but that simply cannot be true for the reason that those spoken of are described as ruling over God's people at the time when Christ's kingdom is established. The description aptly describes the Watchtower's leadership presently. They constantly brag about our supposedly living in a spiritual paradise and how Jesus has supposedly already appointed them over all of his belongings. And, of course, all of our theology is precariously perched upon the 1914 calculation. We have made a lie our refuge—just as the prophecy says.
The "overflowing flash flood" that will sweep away the falsehood is the oncoming tribulation. That's when the foundation of God's everlasting kingdom is laid, according to that particular prophecy. And that's why it says that "no one exercising faith will get panicky"; because, for a certainty, the tribulation will be a time of great confusion and panic.
So, rather than looking to the past, back to 1914 for the establishment of Christ's kingdom, our faith should cause us to look forward to God's judgment. And regardless of what happens, whether the Watchtower rolls over belly up and half of Jehovah's Witnesses defect, if our faith is in God and his kingdom, we will prevail.
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If there is Armageddon, will it just be Jehovah's Witnesses whose souls will live on and if they aren't Jehovah's Witnesses their soul will die? As a non-Jehovah's Witness, I find this rather daunting. Does this mean my soul will die, despite the fact I try to be good and have high moral values, if there is an Armageddon? |
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Jesus very plainly said that many are on the road to destruction; whereas only a few are on the road leading to life. That ought to put things in perspective, shouldn't it? What is required for our salvation then? Just being a good person according to human standards? Avoiding selfish behavior and criminal activity? No. Jesus said at John 17:3 that everlasting life is a result of taking in accurate knowledge of God and Jesus Christ.
Unfortunately, Christendom has made it virtually impossible for the multitudes that are steeped in her babylonish Trinity doctrine, and other falsities, to know God and Christ. That helps us to understand why Jesus explained in the 7th chapter of Matthew that the many who call him "Lord, Lord," and who, during the judgment, claim to have even prophesied in his name, will be found out to be workers of lawlessness.
I would exhort you not to rely on your own presumed righteous standing before God as the basis for your salvation, but instead, live a life devoted to God and Christ.
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What do you think of the scriptures in the 2nd chapter of Habakkuk? "Because thou has spoiled many nations all the remnant of the nations shall spoil thee." Is this talking about the US and Britain, and is therefore the foretold sword stroke? Or is it talking about Babylon the great who is attacked by the ten horns? |
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The entire verse of Habakkuk 2:8 reads: "Because you yourself despoiled many nations, all the remaining ones of the peoples will despoil you, because of the shedding of blood of mankind and the violence to the earth, the town and all those dwelling in it."
The pronoun "you" refers to the Chaldean, of whom Habakkuk 1:12 says that God appointed for a judgment. In the larger application, the Chaldean symbolizes the 8th king of Revelation and the king of fierce countenance in Daniel. (For detailed discussion see essay: The Ultimate Final Solution) The "town" to which the Chaldean did violence refers to Jerusalem. In the modern, "Jerusalem" symbolizes the organization associated with heavenly Jerusalem. Jesus foretold that a symbolic Jerusalem would become desolated by a political disgusting thing during the conclusion. That's what the prophecy in Habakkuk is describing. The "remaining ones of the peoples" who despoil the Chaldean represent the great crowd who inherit the earth—in affect taking the spoils of the war of Armageddon after Christ and his 144,000 dispose of the genocidal last king.
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There seems to be sound reasoning on the scriptures you have quoted to show the times of the Gentiles have not yet begun. But how are we to understand Daniel 4 (the dream of the tree) and the chronology the WT society has presented in relation to Daniel 4 to show a period of 2520 years pass from 607BCE before the Gentile Times end in 1914? Are we to conclude that the dream has no relevance to the establishment of God's kingdom, and only pertained to Nebuchadnezzar himself? |
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I honestly do not know. It does not seem reasonable that the seven times do not apply beyond Nebuchadnezzar. Every prophecy in Daniel points to some aspect of Christ's kingdom, so the prophecy of the seven times would be an anomaly if it did not have a greater application. Perhaps when the book of Daniel is unsealed during the actual time of the end it might become known.
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My husband is a Jehovah Witness and is baptized, however he does not talk to his kids like a father should. He just says goodnight to them and that is only after I have told him lots of times to at least do that…He has never made our kids feel like he loves them. He does not want to talk to the elders, so what can I do? |
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I am sorry to hear about your situation. We all need to be reminded of our spiritual and family responsibilities. The Watchtower has published many helpful articles on those topics. Perhaps you might familiarize yourself with our literature and lovingly remind him of certain articles. Here is as a recently published online article that speaks to the exact problem you are dealing with. Maybe you can print it out and share it with him.
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Please explain the choosing of the Watchtower as God's channel on earth. Is there any objective proof of this assumption? |
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The scriptural basis for having such an arrangement is found at Matthew 24:45, where Jesus posed the rhetorical question: "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings."
Let the reader take note that Christ authorized, chose, or appointed, however you wish to phrase it, a "slave" to oversee the spiritual feeding of others of his servants. Not only that, but that arrangement would be in place up until the moment that the Master of the household arrives for inspection.
Now, the question is, though, whether the Watchtower is the actual channel of that slave? The answer is that there is ample reason for believing that such is the case.
The primary anecdotal evidence that the Watchtower is the voice of the faithful slave of Christ's illustration is that the Watchtower has been instrumental in producing a people who fit the description of the little flock and the other sheep of the future great crowd of survivors. Since its inception the Watchtower has been the rallying point for those who give evidence of being genuine wheat-like sons of the kingdom.
The Watchtower has also provided the doctrinal basis for our coming to know the truth about God by their ongoing exposure of Christendom's many false doctrines.
The Watchtower fits the description of offering food at the proper time by publishing timely information designed to help Jehovah's Witnesses deal with specific problems that have arisen over the years.
Also, without the Watchtower's direction Jehovah's Witnesses would not have much of a public ministry. But the Watchtower's feeding program has resulted in producing an army of zealous ministers.
Finally, because of the faithful slave's own shortcomings and the influence of the foretold evil slave, the Watchtower fits the prophetic description of the appointed servant who goes astray and thus comes inline for Jehovah's rebuke.
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