Last year I gave a #4 talk on the Great Crowd. Research led me to Rev 19:2, which talks of a Great Crowd in Heaven. That lead me to an in depth study of the "naos" in Rev 7 and Rev 11:2. I am left VERY unsettled. It appears in every way that the Great Crowd of Rev 7 is indeed in heaven with the angels, Elders and 4 living creature. How do we really prove that the Great Crowd of Rev 7 is "before the throne" in the sense of having God's approval and not literally in heaven as it would appear?

The thing that can be kind of confusing is that the 19th chapter of Revelation refers to two separate great crowds. The first mention of a great crowd indeed depicts them as being in heaven. Please notice, though, that the prophecy says that the great crowd in heaven says with a loud voice: "Praise Jah, you people!" So, obviously, that "great crowd" has reference to all of God's holy angels in heaven. But, who are the people they are exhorting to praise Jah? The people are those on earth who witness and survive Jah's destruction of Babylon the Great. So, then, that's why we read in the 6th verse that a great crowd responds to the angelic invitation and they praise Jehovah. Do you see the distinction?

We generally think of the term "great crowd" as applying strictly to the non-anointed flock of Jehovah's Witnesses, but that is not necessarily the way the Scriptures always use that term, as is evident at Revelation 19:1. So, a great crowd can be just a generic term that means a large number of individuals. A gathering of angels can rightly be called a great crowd, and a gathering of people can be a great crowd too.

As far as the Greek word naos, meaning temple of God, or literally "place of divine habitation," you must ask yourself: What is the temple of God in the Christian arrangement? According to the apostle Paul, the temple of God is the spiritual organization composed of all of the anointed. For example, Ephesians 2:20-22 says, in part: "Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone. In union with him the whole building being harmoniously joined together, is growing into a holy temple for Jehovah...a place for God to inhabit by spirit."

Another verse is 1 Corinthians 3: 16: "Do you not know that you people are God's temple, and that the spirit of God dwells in you?...for the temple of God is holy, which temple you people are."

Up until the time of Christ's arrival, Jehovah's spiritual temple is under construction, so-to-speak. But, when Jesus arrives, first he completes it, then he cleanses Jehovah's spiritual temple. So, what follows its completion is the inauguration of the temple. That's why Haggai 2:7 says of Jehovah's temple: "And I will rock all the nations, and the desirable things of all the nations must come in; and I will fill this house with glory, Jehovah of armies has said."

Now, if the anointed themselves are the temple of Jehovah, those so-called "desirable things" that fill the house cannot be anointed. So, back in Revelation 7:13-17, the great crowd is composed of those "desirable things" and they are ushered into the temple due to Jehovah's rocking the nations during the global holocaust called the great tribulation. So, while the anointed are the temple, the great crowd worships Jehovah in his temple, meaning that they come under the divine arrangement of the kingdom of God, which, as you well know, is composed of Christ and his 144,000 joint heirs.

That the great crowd is depicted as standing before the throne is in keeping with Jesus' own comments, where he urged his followers to make supplication that they may succeed in "standing before the Son of man." So, standing before God or the Son of man, merely means that one is able to attain a favorable judgment.

Also, consider Christ's parable of the sheep and the goats. After describing the Son of man sitting down on his judgment throne, Jesus said: "And all the nations will be gathered before him." A literal reading of that verse has led some to jump to the absurd conclusion that God resurrects all the wicked to heaven just so that he can condemn them to the everlasting fire. That, of course, is simply ludicrous. Being gathered before the throne simply means that the people of the world are brought to judgment before God. It doesn't mean that they are literally before his presence in heaven.

Opposers of Jehovah's Witnesses have often claimed to be able to spot "demonic" images within the illustrations of publications put out by the WT society. Some of these claims are truly dubious at best, others if you squint just right and the light is at the proper angle, you just might see something that looks somewhat weird. I usually just laugh off these suggestions, but your comments about there being saboteurs, as it were, within the Watchtower make me wonder if perhaps some images are put into illustrations intentionally by such ones for the express purpose of misleading some and causing the very stir that they have among the apostate community.

A few ago, back in the early 80's, there was a Watchtower study article that created a bit of a stir, in that there was an obvious subliminal image of a human face artfully camouflaged into one of the graphics. It was disturbing and puzzling to be sure, but it was not necessarily a demonic image. It was probably the handiwork of a mischievous artist that was subsequently expelled from the art department after that prank. But, it did create a lot of suspicion, to the point that the Watchtower even wrote an article shortly afterwards, reprimanding individuals that believed such things.

Really, though, we ought not to worry about such trivial things. The things, though, that should concern us, are what we believe and are taught by the Watchtower. The apostle's advise to "make sure of the more important things, hold fast to what is fine," seems to be good counsel, does it not?

If the 12 tribes of Israel in Revelation are not fleshly Israel, but spiritual Israel, then not all spiritual Israelites are to rule as kings and priest, as joint heirs with Christ [only 12000 from each spiritual tribe]. As fleshly Israel had priesthood [the tribe of Levi chosen to represent the firstborn saved when the angel passed over the Israelite households in Egypt] so Spiritual Israel has priesthood.

Actually, all spiritual Israelites are kings and priests. 1 Peter says of them: "But you are a chosen race a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession..." Notice, please, that Peter said that the entire spiritual nation was "a royal priesthood."

If we followed your line of reasoning, Jesus Christ would have had to be of the tribe of Levi in order for him to qualify as Jehovah's High priest. Yet, Christ was from the tribe of Judah. That's because in order to become the Lion of the tribe of Judah and inherit the Davidic kingdom, Jesus had to be born in that tribe. And of course, Law strictly separated the kingship and the priesthood. The priests had to be Levites and the kings had to be Judeans. No king could become a priest and no priest could sit on the throne.

So, how could Christ become both king and high priest? The reason was because Christ was appointed by prophecy to be a king and priest "according to the manner of Melchizedek." Melchizedek predated the establishment of 12 tribes of Israel and the Mosaic Law. His appointment as a priest and king of Salem came directly from Jehovah God, and was not contingent upon birth. Paul's letter to the Hebrews discusses in great detail this aspect of Christ's priesthood.

So, since that is the legal basis for Christ serving as a High priest before Jehovah, it stands to reason that the 144,000 spiritual Israelites that serve as under-priests with him receive their appointment from Jehovah through Christ. That being the case, it becomes obvious why the 12 tribes of spiritual Israel do not follow the pattern under the old Levitical system as you suppose.

How can you make such a statement as: English Freemasonry's plot to 'bring down the U.S.'? My question, or request, is that you support that statement. Perhaps you might consider the facts:

Here are the facts as best as they can be ascertained, in response to each of your statements. (In Italics) Each reader can then decide for him or herself the truth of the matter if that is their wish, although, likely, there is more information available on the net then most readers have the inclination to consider.

1. Freemasonry has existed in substantially its present form for literally hundreds of years. One could certainly support an argument that it is thousands of years old. Entire societies, civilizations, and religions have come and gone, but Masonry continues. I have relatives still living that are older than your faith.

Yes. Apparently Masonry is very old, dating back to the Middle Ages as far as an organized society, and philosophically, it dates back much further into antiquity. Here is a brief history of the development of masonry from a Catholic perspective, which as you may, or may not know, the Pope has forbidden Catholics from becoming Masons.

2. Freemasonry accepts men of nearly every faith. Freemasonry's only requirement is that you believe in one Supreme Being.

Masonry itself embraces the doctrine of pantheism, which is not to be confused with polytheism. Pantheists basically believe that everything is God. But, if everything is God, then nothing is God. Critics charge that pantheism is merely atheism for nature lovers. Of course, that is not to say that all Masons are pantheistic, but that is the doctrinal foundation of the society as a whole. The so-called New Age religion is pantheistic in nature, and so not surprisingly, Masonry is a promoter of that religious movement.

3. Freemasonry is not a secret society. We hold our meetings in public.

According to the Catholic encyclopedia, Masonry is a secret society. According to the British government, every appointed judge must openly declare if he is a Mason, because Masonry is viewed in Britain as a secret society within society.

But, as I am sure you know, there are different degrees of Masonry. Lower level initiation is apparently merely a recruiting ground for those who are tapped to move up into the more secretive levels of the organization. Here is a web site that discusses the various levels within Masonry for those who are interested.

4. Freemasonry ranks among the worlds most generous and charitable organizations. We help people in all walks of life, without regard to race, creed, or religion.

That may well be. But, it is also a fact that many powerful individuals and organizations use philanthropy as a front to cover more nefarious deeds. For example, Prince Phillip organized the WorldWide Fund for Nature (WWF) which, appears as a benevolent organization concerned with saving cuddly pandas from extinction. Yet, other reports indicate the WWF is merely a front for extending British imperial control into former colonial lands. Prince Phillip, by the way, is one of the top-ranking members of British Freemasonry.

Another example is George Soros. He is hailed by some as one of the greatest philanthropists of all time. Yet, the Prime Minister of Malaysia has publicly accused Soros of deliberately destroying the value of the currency of certain Asian nations back during the so-called Asian financial crisis a few years ago. The Prime Minister said that Soros' predatory financial practices make him a menace to society. Soros was recently convicted in France of insider trading. So, thinking people, if given the facts, can reason things out and come to the conclusion that things are not always the way they seem.

Also, your reasoning does not take into account that the world is presided over by super human demons that are bent on deception. The demons have always put up a false front in order to mislead mankind away from Jehovah. As an example of their deceit, consider that, in the Bible, demon-possessed people often declared Jesus Christ to be the Son of God. By all appearances, it would seem that the demons were telling the truth, yet Jesus would have none of their "witnessing" in his behalf. Christ well knew that the demons merely wanted to give themselves some credibility in order to worm their way into the work that Jesus and his apostles were doing. It is no different today. Satan uses various organizations and institutions in order to exert his control in the world, and most of them appear to be well-meaning and benevolent. Given Masonry's obvious occult connections, it is apparent that masonry has willingly lent itself to the work of the Devil, even though outwardly it may appear benign, and even beneficial. But that is the nature of evil. Even as Paul warned his fellow Christians that Satan could transform himself into a guiding angel of light, similarly Satan's earthly ministers have the power to appear as righteous benefactors of mankind.

5. The founding fathers of our country were masons. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Paul Revere, Joe Warren, John Hancock. Thirteen presidents in all were masons. All evil doer's, right? Thousands of the worlds best and brightest have, over the ages, chosen to associate themselves with us, and to continue to spread Masonic light, to perform charity and public service, and practice those principals that not only endure, but are good and true.

Not all Masons are evildoers, just as all Catholics are not evildoers and not all of Jehovah's Witnesses are righteous. For one thing, Masonry used to be extremely popular during the 19th Century. It was generally considered by most as a necessary expedient and a good old boys club to further one's own political career. Eventually, though, an anti-Masonic political party was established in the United States and the much scandalized murder of a fellow by the name of Captain William Morgan brought Masonry under closer scrutiny and it fell out of favor with many.